132: How to Invest in Real Estate with Non Performing Notes with Paperstac
On this episode of the InvestFourMore Real Estate Podcast, I interview Rick Allen and TJ Osterman, who created Paperstac. Paperstac is a company that helps investors find, buy, and sell performing and non-performing notes on real estate. Rick and TJ both have extensive experience investing in real estate themselves. They bought and sold over 400 houses before they got into the note business. I talk to both Rick and TJ to learn how they got into real estate, what they love about the real estate note business, and how others can get into it as well.
How did TJ and Rick get started investing in real estate?
TJ Osterman moved to Florida to become a golf teacher but along the way invested in a house flip and made $30,000 on the deal. He was immediately hooked on real estate and gave up his teaching aspirations. TJ began flipping more and more houses, wholesaling deals, and working closely with a hard-money lender. Rick ended up in Florida for college. He got his real estate license after he graduated and got into time share sales. Eventually, Rick and TJ were working together with 20 to 25 employees, scoring deals and financing for real estate investors. They eventually decided there were too many moving parts and too much stress in their business, so they looked for something new.
How did TJ and Rick get into the note business, and how do non-performing notes work?
Rick and TJ stumbled upon a note that was for sale and ended up making over $30,000 on one deal without doing much work. They decided they wanted to be in the note business and began a new venture. They learned where to buy notes, how to complete due diligence, how to work with homeowners, and how to sell notes. On the show, TJ and Rick explain the notes they like to buy and how the business works.
When a house buyer gets a mortgage, a note is created with it. That note is the borrower’s promise to pay back the money they borrowed with all the terms and conditions they agreed to. Many banks will sell these notes to other banks or investors. A non-performing note is a note where the borrower has fallen behind on payments or stopped making payments. You can buy non-performing notes at a steep discount because there is no guarantee the borrowers will ever pay, and the owner of the note may have to foreclose on the house to get some of their money back.
How cheaply can TJ and Rick buy non-performing notes?
Rick and TJ typically buy their notes for 30 cents or less of the original loan amount. If someone got a loan for $100,000, they may pay $30,000 or less for that debt. However, just because the loan was originally $100,000 does not mean the house is still worth that much money. Rick and TJ will buy these notes and try to help the homeowner rework the financing so they can make payments again. Because they get the note for so cheap, they are able to greatly reduce the principal amount and payments for the borrowers while still making money themselves. There is even a program called the HHF Fund where the government will give people money to catch up on their mortgages. That money goes straight to the lender, who would be Rick and TJ if they own a particular loan that qualifies for that program. Make sure to listen to the podcast for the details on that program, which I had never heard of.
How can you learn more about note investing?
TJ and Rick created Paperstac to help investors find and buy notes. However, they warn there is a lot to learn about the business before you invest in a non-performing loan. I would agree with that, especially since you may have to foreclose on a house, and state laws vary on how foreclosures work. In some states, you can foreclose on a house in a couple of months, and in other states, it can take years. To learn all the ins and outs of note investing, Rick and TJ created Note Force Academy. The academy helps people learn where to buy notes, how to buy them, and the best exit strategies.